I just have to say that I have never had so much fun at a conference, or laughed so hard. I know, I know, I am supposed to be doing spiritual things, but who says conferences can't be fun?
THE MAIN THING THAT KEEPS COMING UP: CREATIVITY
The overarching theme about this morning's session really looked at the system of the church. Churches are notorious for changing pastors or adding in new programs. Some work some don't, and so the churches assume that it was the pastor or the program when in reality it probably was the church system. Here are a few bullet points about church systems.I am just blown over by the creativity of this church. Here is the thing: every church can be like North Point, not in copying them but in the fact that each church has creative people in it and when they are unleashed to be who they are it just energizes the church. And it attracts the creativity of the community. Just today we saw a musical number taken from The Music Man (There's Trouble Right Here In River City) that had been re done. It was just awesome. There are many other examples, but this place just oozes creativity. Anyway, let me throw this out for kicks: what if the 2nd greatest sin of the church (I will talk about the number 1 sin later) has been in stifling the creativty of people?
Repairing The Trany
- There are organizational systems that are conducive to ministry and organizational systems that impede ministry.
- Systems Create behaviors. ( For example the preacher can preach on evangelism and people can even agree that they should do it, but they won't because the overall system hasn't changed.)
- Anytime you hear, "Well, our people just won't..." you are listening to someone who doesn't understand the influence of systems."
- Systems have a greater impact on organizational culture than do mission statements.
- In the NT we discover what the early church did. The NT does not lay out a comprehensive plan instructing church leaders what to do. (I may have to blog more on this sometime. Very interesting.)
9 comments:
Are they suggesting we should do away with the system, or just change it?
Is "system" a good thing? Does the body need a system? Besides achieving certain goals, what is gained by being part of a system?
You can tell by my questions that I'm not much of a system guy. By definition, a system is set up to accomplish stated goals and produce results. To accomplish the stated goals and achieve the results, it has to be structured to perpetuate itself. To perpetuate itself, it has to implement certain constraints for the adherents, rules and a code of conduct. This code is set up to remove all variation and to reduce risk. Efficiency and scale become critical for success, adherence is demanded from the members, and eventually perpetuating the system takes precedence over even accomplishing the goals themselves.
If the goal isn't set up in measurable terms (numbers, size, etc.), then do we need a system? If the goal is life, can a system be put in place to deliver it?
It seems inevitable that ultimately when results are achieved through implementation of a system (they DO produce results, there is no question) that the goose is no longer free to fly where He will.
Seems like the answer to this would give us the meaning of life. At least the meaning of "life within the body".
Sorry for ranting on your blog. I love you man, and everything that you stand for.
Jon
Dude, that sounded like a rant. I'm sorry about that.
No offense taken.
I understand your frustration. I just put bullet points and didn't explain enough.
Everything is a system. Our bodies, a soybean, a jet airplane. Everything is a system. Even in the realm of counseling there is family systems counseling. A family is a system. The family is one of the most underestimated systems on the planet, it can do much good as well as much harm. But here is the deal, a system doesn't always get the desired result...they may get a result, but not the desired one.
Churches (being a system) are notorious for simply adding programs or hiring a different pastor to get results...they fail to pop the hood and look at the system. No one every really has the guts to say, "You know, we are just messing around with programs, trying to manipulate people to come to church, maybe we need to change how we operate?"
One last thing, God works primarily through systems. Think of what Jesus said in John about the vine and the branches. It is a system, and God is going to work primarily through whoever is plugged into the system.
I will need to talk about this some more.
A church is a family system--it's just a bigger system. "System" sounds like a reductionist, mechanical term, but no one functions in isolation. Even if we cut our selves off from others, our cutoff effects the relationships of others. What makes the church a family system is our relationship to the Father and elder brother through the Spirit who indwells us. Without the Spirit the church becomes a dysfunctional family system. Have you ever been in a church fight? I do not believe the Holy Spirit is a part of those because the fruit of the Spirit is not to be found. I refuse to be a part of a church where there is no fruit of the Spirit.
blessings,
Dudes, Jesus didn't DO systems.
One blind guy was healed by mud. Another blind guy was healed with just the laying on of His hands.
Individuals require individual plans. One system ain't gonna blanket the problem and solve it.
These comments have been brought to you by a chick holding a BBA and a lover of systems! Systems are great for the ways of the world, but not for being instruments of the Holy Spirit.
:D
Let's talk systems.
The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit = System
Jesus chose to use the rabbinical system of disciplemaking to impact the world.
The church is referred to as a bride and Jesus the groom...a family system.
As was mentioned, God is our Father and Jesus is our brother...again another system.
The church is also described as a body...an human system.
Paul writes in 1 Corinthians that God is not a God of disorder, but of peace.
The universe is a complex design of systems.
The problem with the word "system" is that when we hear the word we think government, big business, or church and it rubs us the wrong way. Interesting isn't it?
Yeah, it rubs us.
If you say that families and the Trinity are systems, then you're using a very broad definition of "system." Speaking this broadly, my morning hygiene activities would be a system--involving myself, a razor, a shower, a bar of soap, a toothbrush, and floss. (Ok, I lied about the floss.)
I think of systems a little more narrowly than that. Not suggesting you have to change your ideas, just throwing it out there.
A system seems to imply the existence of some rules which govern the actions of the members (whether those members are humans or some other kind of entity). Those rules are not necessarily intrinsic to the members--that is, the rules can be completely arbitrary, outside of, or not derived from the identities of the members.
This is not the case with the Trinity, because they live out exactly what and who they each are and what collectively they are. They don't likely have agreements that regulate how they relate to one another. Like, the Holy Spirit gets the shower first on Tuesdays, that kind of thing. Those are the kinds of rules that I'm talking about.
Those kinds of rules can be applied to families, businesses, clubs, etc. Sometimes they are needed--most of the time they have the same effect as the Law. They are great at revealing offenses, but they fail to give life.
It isn't the existence of rules that bothers me. Organization is needed. The danger of a rules-based system is that continuation of the rules can, over time, take precedence over the wellness of the members. Perpetuating the system and its rules becomes the goal, rather than the means.
This is what has happened in most organized churches in America. Perpetuating the building, the grounds, the programs, etc. has taken precedence over the individual life of the members. The heart of the member is secondary to the continuation and expansion of the system.
The problem begins when the members look to the system to deliver them life and wellness, and they stop looking to one another (and God) for nourishment. This happens very subtly in most of our churches.
The "visible church" with all its buildings and buses and programs and rules and ideas and plans cannot give life to any of the members. It cannot do what it was set up to do.
Can it create the conditions in which the Spirit is invited to move where He will, stirring up the members to life? Yes, I think so, but I haven't been part of a community like that.
Ok, one more comment, then I'll quit.
There's a difference between rules and roles. Father, Son, Spirit, Bride, Groom, Brother, Shepherd--all of these do what they do because of who they are. The role they play flows naturally from their identity.
They do not DO the things they DO because they have been given rules.
The bother with many systems is the unnaturalness of the rules. Roles are established and handed out like job descriptions. Created social systems tend not to want to deal with the individual identities of the members.
Does a family need anything more than a clear understanding of the identity of each family member?
Does a local body of believers need anything more than to know who they are in Christ and Who Christ is--then play those roles naturally and without reservation?
Struck a nerve on this one, Dude. Love where your blog is going.
This is really good! Thanks for the responses, this really did strike a nerve.
Jon, you beautifully articulated the plight of the church. I could not have done it better myself. The is the part of the system that needs to change. Here is an example: If the church really is a family then it should opperate on the basis of relationships not rules, and spiritual gifts not titles. That is changing the system.
Jon I totally understand where you are coming from. When I wrote this initial blog, I was simply reviewing my notes from the conference. When I read your reply I literally laughed out loud because I could see why that would rub you the wrong way.
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